Someone finds the Kevin Spacey banner on G4TW "shocking and disgusting": my response. [#beef #drama]

In response to the following e-mail (*Trigger warning/Disclaimer* the text below is written with a snarky and potentially unpleasant undertone; if you are easily triggered then keep reading at your own risk only):




The banner that the user is alluding to:





Hi Julia!!

I did not realize it immediately, but then came to the conclusion you were referring to the banner of Kevin Spacey that was up on here, with the words "Kill them with kindness". First of all: despite you sending this e-mail to Ann's address (which you & everybody else on here should know by now that I monitor as well) it was me who posted these banners.

In fact, I supervise all daily operations on this Forum here, while Admin ~Ann~ is more in the background. So much for organization.

Now back to topic. You know, most of the e-mails I (we) get are usually about people asking for direct downloads for these repacks, and complaints about the adverts used here. Other than that our audience is rather apolitical. But you know what, why can't we address off-topic issues like that as well from time to time? So, yes, let's talk politics!!

The "reason why I would ever put this there"? Hmmmm, let me think! Ah, I found a reason, maybe! How about the fact that the charges against Kevin Spacey were dropped ? Or the fact that you can find aspects of somebody good, without necessarily agreeing with the rest of their personality or deeds? (more on the latter during the course of this essay).

You might now point out this here:

Hypothetical commenter wrote:The victim was afraid to expose himself in public (...) he might have even received death threats from Kevin Spacey fans (...) the victim was afraid that if he went forward and testified in court, that he might experience "problems down the road" (...) it's very likely that Kevin Spacey has powerful friends who surely influenced the prosecution's decision.

Et cetera. That might sound reasonable. But still: can we now accuse anybody of anything, not show up in court, and then expect everybody else to accept these accusations? Where I come from, things don't work like that.

If you were accused of the same Julia, you would want the matter clarified in court as well, right? It seems you're cutting the (alleged?) victim some slack for not showing up in court and making use of their right to initiate legal proceedings, so I would assume the same goes if - god forbid - you ever found yourself in the position of being accused of something?

See, I do not follow news very often, especially not if they come from the likes of the US, UK, Canada or other "Western(ized)" countries. Though I did hear about this whole #MeToo movement. And you will not believe me now, but I find that good! More and more people are speaking up against the rampant abuse that takes place, and which many of us have almost accepted as "standard". This crap needs to stop. But for the sake of objectivity, let us also examine a different scenario, shall we? I know this will "shock and disgust" even more people on here, but I really don't care.

What about the (hypothetical) scenario that someone lodges a false accusation against somebody? Maybe they are banking on the chance of the accused person being so afraid as to "settle" the matter out of court. With some sweet stash of cash? How about it, Julia?

Life in modern America is expensive. Unlike in most of Europe, even a half-decent health insurance costs a fortune. You also need to buy food/drink, pay for (mostly overpriced) rent, utility bills, other taxes, etc. And on the other hand, well-paying jobs are rather scarce and/or being taken over by machines or robots. Even with a college/university degree you are not nearly guaranteed to find a decent job. Very unpleasant circumstances, huh? Now, I would be damned if it never ever even once occurred to any random person there to "help themselves", in these dire economic times.

What could that look like? Let me think. How about launching a lawsuit against a restaurant because there was a hair in the soup they ordered? With the hopes of getting some extra sweet cash? Or maybe launching a false accusation against a prominent person for sexual harassment/abuse, in hopes that the accused person is so afraid they will give the alleged victim some money, in return for silence? Does this scenario sound so much as being "out of this world"?

Now someone will say:

Hypothetical commenter wrote:But Kevin Spacey himself admitted to doing these horrible things!

In itself, that doesn't convince me. We all know how theatrical many American law enforcement/prosecutors behave, in their work. They treat interrogations as a game, using aggressive tactics, and even accept false confessions. Maybe they are even pushed by their superiors that "the media and the [local administrator/governor/etc.] need a perpetrator NOW". Besides, if I myself were pushed against the wall, I would also admit doing anything, because I psychologically believe that a fake confession will relieve the immediate pressures I am exposed to, and "later on everything will turn out OK, because I am innocent anyways". 

If anybody of you reading this has any - even tangential - experience in the field of legal studies or more specifically criminal prosecution, you might be aware that a false confession is the worst thing you can give as an accused person, especially in America.

Where I come from, we trust our legal & state institutions. And confessions will be thoroughly investigated. If charges are dropped or someone is declared innocent, then whatever our personal feelings are, we have to move on, or seek another opinion from a higher authority or court, if that is even possible. There will always be cases in which we feel in our hearts that "something isn't right", and you will be surprised again, but I say that there is a great chance that you are right! There is more than a grain of truth in the saying that one should generally trust their gut feeling. It is a way that our body is communicating to our self, to be careful or mindful. A.k.a. do not underestimate subliminal cues. Nonetheless, I do not recommend you then take matters into your own hands, and instead use the appropriate legal procedures or channels.

If the charges against Spacey had gone through, and he had been pronounced guilty, then I would probably be more considerate. But still, can I not simply like a generic comment that he made, in a random "House of Cards"-style video? Is it not possible to somehow separate certain aspects of a person, from their general personality?

The first President of America, George Washington. Revered by the (American) mainstream as a hero, until today, for fending off British rule back then. But wasn't he a slave owner? Didn't he even sexually abuse one of his female slaves, or was that one of his fellow goons back then? I apologize, I am not sharp on the details of American history. But either way: if someone admires G. Washington for patriotism, does that automatically make them a proponent of slavery? 

Modern life can get even more complex than that. Let's take another commonly-used example:

Hypothetical commenter wrote:If you buy cheap merchandise from (discount) supermarkets, you support child labor!1111

What if someone can't afford to buy their stuff at expensive shops, ever thought about that? And how do we know that the weird label on e.g. coffee beans ("Fair trade") indicates anything special? 

How about you, Julia? I'm almost sure that the clothes you yourself use were made by child slave laborers from India or Bangladesh. But do I therefore accuse you of supporting child slavery? No...? And what about any cosmetics that you (maybe) use? I don't hope that animals had to suffer during the testing of these materials?

What if I happen to enjoy a work of art, from someone who happened to be a supporter of the Nazi-ideology? Am I consequently a Nazi too? And what if I am a fan of Soviet-era military hardware? Am I then a fervent supporter Soviet-style communism, with all its negative side-effects too?

But to come to a conclusion. I do like Spacey's acting in House of Cards. I like the quote that was used in the banner: "Kill them with kindness". Do I believe he is a XXX offender? I don't know, and quite frankly, I don't think I care enough. The official charges were dropped, and that is for me the beacon I am gravitating to.

Now, if you want to call me a XXX offender/child abuser or whatever, for posting that Kevin Space banner, which by the way I will shortly put back up here, then go ahead. I will not care. Despite being quite opinionated in that regard, however, if anybody of you has a different opinion AND you are able to communicate it in a civil manner, please don't be afraid to go ahead. By all means also e-mail me. Maybe I will learn new perspectives?

But as of right now, I will post banners, even with quotes from persons who may be considered 'dubious', by some people's standards. Make no mistake, I do draw certain boundaries, so "personages" of the caliber of Hitler or Stalin will stay off. Not that they ever said anything intelligent, but still. Frank Underwood/Kevin Spacey does not fall into that category. What can I say? I just have different beliefs and values, from the average "Westerner".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

People will always look out for themselves. Take the trial of Harvey Weinstein for example...All of these "women" have said he either raped them or whatever. Can that be confirmed? All we have is the statements from them and the District Prosecutors (who are looking to advance their careers) pretty much foaming at the mouth about trying the guy. I don't know if he's guilty, perhaps he might be. But that is what started the "#METOO" movement which is a bunch of hogwash if you ask me. I don't find the banner offensive. If someone does, they don't have to come to this site.

@The_gh0stm4n, I honestly think that was just some kind of troll, and you should have ignored them.

Freezer Bunny wrote:@The_gh0stm4n, I honestly think that was just some kind of troll, and you should have ignored them.

Maybe; but I found that e-mail was too far off-topic from what we normally do on G4TW here, which in almost any context is a good indicator that the person who wrote that e-mail was sincere. If there are trolls (which by the way is rare) they usually post something more closely related to our activities, like negative things or false information about our Downloads & Support activities.

And, I don't make these announcements for every type of  idiotic  commentary/e-mail. It's difficult to describe with words, but you get a feeling when something isn't worth your time. In this case, I felt it appropriate to start the #roastbeef.

The_gh0stm4n wrote:Maybe; but I found that e-mail was too far off-topic from what we normally do on G4TW here, which in almost any context is a good indicator that the person who wrote that e-mail was sincere. If there are trolls (which by the way is rare) they usually post something more closely related to our activities, like negative things or false information about our Downloads & Support activities.

And, I don't make these announcements for every type of  idiotic  commentary/e-mail. It's difficult to describe with words, but you get a feeling when something isn't worth your time. In this case, I felt it appropriate to start the #roastbeef.

Ah interesting, I did not see it from that perspective!

So I had a feeling, and I actually checked back under the games4theworldclub-protonmail. My instinct proved right, and oof! So much argumentative prowess! I must confess, it really looks like I got utterly exposed now by Julia! I shall go ahead and bury my head in shame!!



No, I'm just kidding, I'll definitely not bury my head in shame. But here's a plot twist Julia, if you're still reading this thread. I don't actually intend to "make myself look good". Not sure how you reach that conclusion; but really, who would I want to impress? I only wanted to get a point across, in this specific context.   And no, that point is NOT about whether Kevin Spacey is guilty or not.

But please, carry on making a fool of yourself Julia.

#exposed

//EDIT

I'll also close this thread now, I suppose I'm done making my case and beefing here, and there doesn't really seem to be any coherent communication with the user possible, anyhow.